he wanted to know, wait, how did a minority in the united states achieve civil rights? we ended up talking about, and he's fascinating with the founding fathers. the idea that george washington gives up power one term. something mandela later does. but also citizenship. the whole idea that you have rights in the united states. remember, blacks in south africa had none of that. in a sense, we were inspiring too nelson mandela. >> i'm certain of that. was there anything when you sat down with him that really surpriseded you? i'm sure you prepared ahead of time and researched them and got to know the man through what you were able to read and hear from other personal anecdotes. what did you take away from it? >> i think the thing that surprised me the most is i was saying, you know, mr. mandela, you are a beacon to the world in terms of freedom, struggle, the sacrifice, the 27 years in jail, standing up for principle. he started laugh. he didn't laugh easily. i was taken aback. like maybe he's not understanding this american guy. he said no, it's just when he was growing u